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atruss
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« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2009, 03:18:23 PM »

Very cool !
I'm starting to enjoy a little bit of running, but your times are super fast, nothing like mine.

I've been running 4 mile loops to Sundown and back a few times a week.
I'm not running fast, and I do the 4 miles is about 40mins, but lately my shins have been hurting real bad.
I've laid off the running for a good solid week, and even at Tux this trip they bothered me.
Any idea Cosmic?

We did skin up to HOJOs in 90mins with full on winter packs for 2 nights so I'm proud with that time, so the running helped a little.
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« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2009, 04:04:03 PM »

My theory about managing joint pain, shin pain etc, is that as soon as I start to feel it, I switch to some other form of training, for example biking. Trying to work through it just makes it worse. After I know the pain, inflammation, is gone, I go back to running. Over the long term, I am finding that I can do more miles, and more frequent running before I start to feel aches and pains.

Also, don't pressure yourself to run every night or even every other night or you are just going to hate it. I go running when I feel like it, which usually ends up being 2-3 times per week, and it is fun at that frequency - not a job.

Nice pace up to hojos by the way. That's fast with a full pack. Can't wait to read the full report-
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« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2009, 05:40:48 PM »

I came in 23:34, which put me 31st out of 104, and 11th out of 22 in the 30-39 mens age group. Last fall, I ran about 28:30, so I blew my previous time out of the water.
Thats huge improvement.  Thanks for the stoke. 
Its finally getting warm enough for me  to run outdoors here.  My asthma kills me if I run under 50 degrees.  I was so sore after running for real the other day, even though I've been running on the treadmill regularly  Huh.  I guess I run alot differently on a treadmill.
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« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2009, 06:23:04 AM »

I came in at 7:39/mile.

Thats awesome.  How was the course?
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David Howland
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« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2009, 12:33:03 PM »

I've been running 4 mile loops to Sundown and back a few times a week.
I'm not running fast, and I do the 4 miles is about 40mins, but lately my shins have been hurting real bad.
I've laid off the running for a good solid week, and even at Tux this trip they bothered me.
Any idea Cosmic?

we should wait for djming to chime in on this, but in my experience shin splints have been a run through injury EXCEPT if it starts to feel like a stress fracture. sharp, stabbing, crescendo pain can be bad. I've always run through shin splints.

again, I'm no expert, so wait for someone who actually knows what they're talking about to chime in.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 12:34:36 PM by davidhowland14 » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2009, 09:39:56 AM »

I've been running 4 mile loops to Sundown and back a few times a week.
I'm not running fast, and I do the 4 miles is about 40mins, but lately my shins have been hurting real bad.
I've laid off the running for a good solid week, and even at Tux this trip they bothered me.
Any idea Cosmic?

we should wait for djming to chime in on this, but in my experience shin splints have been a run through injury EXCEPT if it starts to feel like a stress fracture. sharp, stabbing, crescendo pain can be bad. I've always run through shin splints.


Is that some kind of hint Wink  Okay, first a disclosure - I'm no doctor, this is just speaking from experience and having been around runners all my life.
As to shin splints - first and foremost keep in mind that a diagnosis of true shinsplints means you actually have very minor stress fracture(s).  More like a "stress seam" for lack of a better term.  People many times confuse true shinsplints with overuse issues or slight muscle tears/pulls.  Another thing to keep in mind that hard efforts (races, sudden increases in mileage, very hard workouts or a new type of activity) can create microscopic muscle tears.  This is not necessarily bad, in fact it is one way the muscles end up getting used to the new or harder activity.  But you will feel discomfort.

Okay, I preface with that because the only cure for true shinsplints is rest.  Usually combined with compression and ice.  If you were able to "run through" shinsplints without them getting worse then you in all likelihood did not really have them to begin with. It was most likely muscular in nature. Think of shinsplints like a small crack in a wall.  Yes it appears minor but if you keep banging on it (ie the pounding of running), what's gonna happen?  It certainly isn't going to go away.    You can absolutely train through minor muscle injuries but that takes some experience.  The hard part is being able to recognize the difference between shinsplints/stress fractures and muscle fatigue/injuries.  Unfortunately most people end up realizing what they can and can't train thru by trial and error.

A couple very rough ways to determine if you MIGHT have shinsplints.  Where is the pain?  If it's on the outside of the shin it's most likely muscular. If it's on the inside of shin it could be shinsplints (but still could be more ligament/tendon in nature).    Find the area of the pain and press with a single finger right on the area.  If the pain in localized or more "throbby", or if you feel like if you could just keep general pressure on it and it would begin to subside then it's probably muscular.  If the pain radiates from your finger and is more "sharp" in nature then that can be more indicative of shinsplints.

Without knowing what atruss was doing throughout the winter, it's hard to really comment on his complaints.  However,if the regular 4 mile runs are a fairly recent thing without much other running prior, then it's most likely fatigue and overuse.  Take some ibu, massage the area (a rolling pin, small dumbell or softball work well).  If it hurts to walk, then don't run.  If you can do light jogging, then go a bit slower and shorter for a few days.  Massaging/rubbing the outer shin along with the calf down to the achilles is a good idea to at least do every other day (especially after activity).

Hope this helps
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atruss
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« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2009, 09:55:09 AM »

Thanks Dj.

The pain is localized in the inner side of my shins.
My right leg, inner left side
My left leg, inner right side

Both are in the same vertical position, about 4 inches above my inner ankle bone.
It hurts when I press on it, but feels much better than the past week

I'm upset that I can't go out and run and keep myself maintained, and feel I'm going to loose some ground I gained from these past few weeks of running.

I have done no additional running up till this point, I'm fit and able to run 4 miles, so that's what I started out with, I'm guessing I should of started with less mileage.  My route I run also includes a large uphill and down hill so there is significant impact on my legs down hill.

During the winter, I hiked, and skinned places, but I did not run indoors or out.

Any other suggestions with this new info I provided?
 
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« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2009, 11:13:02 AM »

Your statement about not running is probably the most telling.  The other activities, while good aerobic stuff, don't have the same impact nature of running.  This is both good and bad.  Good for recovery purposes, bad for maintaining running-specific conditioning.  The pounding of running conditions the muscles and bones to that and if done properly builds strength.  Done improperly or too much too soon causes injuries.
A couple things about your complaints.  Good news is that USUALLY shinsplints occur higher up than what you've described (but of course stress fractures can occur anywhere there is bone).  Where your pain is there's alot of other tendons wrapping around especially as you get towards the achilles area.  Uphills put alot of stress on the those lower muscles/tendons.  Downhills, while fun to do, can be torture on untrained muscles (and even well trained ones, this is why you see so many fit runners blow up early at Boston - too much early downhill running).  The other problem with the area of the lower leg is blood flow isn't as efficient and lower leg and foot injuries take longer to recover from.

Some general ideas:
1) Since you've already taken time off, I'd forgo icing.  Icing inhibits bloodflow which is good for new injuries.  Ice can't make the injury worse, but sometimes it can prolong by reducing bloodflow.  Massage may be key for you.
2) Don't use heat unless you are absolutely sure of what's wrong.  Heat increases bloodflow which can be very bad (especially with new muscle/tendon/ligament damage).  With proper use it can help, but it's usually best to avoid it and just use massage instead.  Or better yet let a doctor or PT prescribe it.
3) Avoid hills until you have more "base miles". 
4) Don't necessarily reduce the mileage, but don't do it every day.  Every other or go shorter in between.  Also if you can find a track or soft surface a couple times a week.
5) Don't stop doing your "usual" 4 mile route.  Just limit it initially to 1-2x/week.  Remember, uphill training is great for aerobic endurance!

Okay, enough of this.  Time for a lunchtime run Grin
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atruss
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« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2009, 11:29:59 AM »

Thanks a ton !

Seriously !

Reps.
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« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2009, 12:03:20 PM »

My friend Eric, the one I ski with alot and went to UT with, is really fit, way more than me. But when he runs he gets a lot of shin pain, always has, and cant seem to remedy it.  I never really had any problem like this, until I started road biking, and then running on consecutive days.   At the time I was in PT for something else so I asked for advice, and she recomended taking a day off when the pain surfaces and using the rolling pin like dave M said.  That helped for my case. 
Mechanicaly I've heard it said before that shin splints comes from landing to hard on your heels while running, but if anything I personally have the mechanical problem of running too much on my toes, and fatiguing my calves, so I was pretty sure in my case that it was a muscular issue.
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cosmic
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« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2009, 12:38:06 PM »

atruss- I guess you should ask yourself why you are running. Sounds like you are running to get into great shape so you can better enjoy the activities you really enjoy. My point is, there are many ways to get into shape, and running is just one of them. So when running starts to give you trouble, switch to something else for a while.  If you want to work through the pain thats fine, but I think you can probably get around it, while still improving your running over time, and still training just as hard using other methods.
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atruss
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« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2009, 12:48:10 PM »

Yeah my sole reason for running was to improve my cardio on trail.

It has helped, and I had little difficulty skinning up to Tux in 90 mins with a full pack.
It usually takes me 2 hours of hard work, and this time it was a ton easier and I shaved off 30 mins

So I'd like to keep that momentum up, so instead of running right now, I may try to hike some trails at higher speeds, possibly time myself.
Jessie Gerard has a good amount of vertical which should provide some lower impact strenuous workout sessions.

But I've actually started to enjoy the running now too.

Damn legs....
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« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2009, 01:29:46 PM »

You may also try sitting on that recumbant bike in your basement or dust off the real thing. 
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stuckinjersey
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« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2009, 03:05:15 PM »

He who learns to walk on hands no longer splints their shins! Grasshopper! Tongue
I actually did Wii fit to get in shape for Katahdin. Tongue sucka
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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2009, 06:49:15 PM »

I ran the Simsbury River Run 5k today. The course was nice and flat, but the start time was 12:00 and by that time the temperature was in the upper 80's. I did well for the 5k, beating my previous race time by about 15 seconds. There was also a 10k which I was going to do instead, but opted out because I had to be home at 1:30. I'm glad I didn't do the 10k today because of this crazy heat wave.
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